“Dead Is Dead” discussion

Wow! Where to start? That episode was literally breath-taking…I almost forgot to breathe a few times!
We learned more about Smokey, the Others, the temple, Ben’s purpose, Locke’s purpose, Ben stealing Alex from Rousseau, Ben attempting to murder Penny…exciting moments, sentimental moments, shocking moments! Locke asked so many great questions, and received answers (though you never can tell if Ben is lying…)!!!

What did you think? Leave your thoughts below as a comment, send me an email at anna.in.indiana@gmail.com, or call 646-495-9205 ext. 35382. Get your comments in by early Thursday evening to have them included in the podcast!

Advertisements

20 Comments

Filed under LOST discussion

20 responses to ““Dead Is Dead” discussion

  1. Ryan in St. Louis

    I want to know why Smokie is not around when John Locke is around. Ben summoned the smoke monster and John went off in the woods because he told Sun he “had something he had to do”. Then he goes to get a rope to pull Ben up with and Smokie comes right out of the vents. Pretty awesome depiction on the walls of Smokie vs. Anubis! My guess is Smokie beat the *Expletive* out of Anubis and tore his statue down. Wow, I need to get a life…

  2. So are the 316ers “infected” with same thing the French team had & where did these guns come from?

  3. annainindiana

    And what’s in the big box that they’re trying to carry on poles like it’s the ark of the covenant?! (And where is that box that Ben pulled out of the vent in the hotel room?)

  4. Justin Sightes

    I don’t say this lightly (I’ve never said it before), but this was absolutely the best episode of LOST ever.

    When Illana asked Lapidus “what lies in the shadow of the statue?” I was reminded of Kelvin and Desmond’s question “what did one snowman say to the other snowman.” I think Illana was trying to determine whether Frank was “in the know” (whatever that might mean in this case). She is obviously connected to the island to a much greater extent than we previously thought, whether through Widmore, through Ben, or through someone else.

    I also thought it was interesting that Ben’s secret room had a stone wall with hieroglyphics in it. This seems to indicate that Ben’s house was built specifically to be connected to the more ancient elements of the island. I can only conclude that his house was not built by DHARMA (who, as far as we can tell, had no knowledge of the islands secrets).

  5. Jason

    Wow! Another really great episode. Really awesome.

    Here’s my thoughts:

    Charles Widmore was banished from the island via the sub and not by turning the wheel. So how much does he know about the wheel? He knows about the “exit” of course but I wonder when and how. And Ben tells him his banishment is because Charles has been going off island and even had a child there. So I guess this is some proof that Penny was born off island, and maybe some explanation of how Charles became such a rich business man off island.
    Side note, kind of interesting to see that Widmore has now been played by three different actors.
    The way we have seen Widmore and Ben’s conflict in past episodes I was of the opinion that they never liked each other. But with their 1st meeting it seemed like Widmore was ok with Ben joining the others. I guess maybe he was just accepting the island’s will.

    Young Ben remembers his dad and doesn’t want to go back, but doesn’t remember getting shot? And then later when Sun shows adult Ben the 1977 photo he acts like he knows nothing about Jack and the gang ever being in the DI. I assume that young Ben is being truthful when talking to Widmore, but adult Ben talking to Sun, IDK is he lying?

    Another cool thing in this episode is that Ben tells Locke that he knew Locke would be alive again on the island. Then later he tells Sun that he didn’t know that would happen and he is very scared to see Locke alive and walking around. This may not be the first time, but I think it is a rare time when two people ask Ben essentially the same question and he gives them both a different answer. I wonder which one is the truth, I think that what he told Sun sounded more sincere.

    So Ben says he came back to the island to be judged by Smokey. I wonder if Locke had not decided to help he if Ben really would have done that on his own?

    Danielle actually saw and talked to Ben when he took Alex. But years later when she has Ben captured in one of her net traps, she goes and gets Sayid and insists that he is one of “them”. Which of course he is, she is right about that, but why didn’t she recognize him as the one that took her baby? You know, something like “Sayid, I know he is one of them, in fact he is the one that stole by baby.”
    I guess because of so many years and she is crazy or whatever.

    Ben kills Ceasar AWESOME, totally unexpected moment for me.
    Since the first episode Ceasar appeared in we have all been trying to figure out if he is a spy put there by Ben or Widmore or maybe a third party. And we still don’t know. But I never would have thought that Ben would just kill him with the saw off shot gun, and how did crafty Ben get the gun away from Ceasar?I’ll say it again, AWESOME

    And I agree with what Justin said above, Why is this secret room in a Dharma house??

    Lot of great quotes in this episode:

    Locke (to Ben): “you just make friends every where you go”

    Frank: “As long as a dead guy says there is a reason, then I guess every thing is peachy”

    BEN:The fact that John is walking around on this island scares the hell out of me.

    Ben: I only know how to summon it, I don’t know where it actually is
    Locke: I do.

    What lies in the shadow of the statue?
    Darkness, of course, what else? 🙂

  6. How about little Charlie saving Penny’s life.I’m glad Ben failed & got a beat down.
    Also do you think that was really Alex or just a smoke monster incarnation like Mr. Echo’s brother.(can’t remember his name)

  7. Jason

    Can we not give Ben a little credit for deciding not to kill Penny?
    I think he clearly changed his mind after seeing little Charlie and was not going to go through with it before Desmond intervened with the smack down.

    Also what will make Desmond go back to the island now? Before I was thinking that if Ben does kill Penny then Des would go back for revenge, but now…

  8. Justin

    I agree with Jason. I think Ben is, at his core, a compassionate person, and he was moved by the sight of little Charlie in the same way he was moved by baby Alex. In each situation, he had gone with the intention of killing the mother, and ended up deciding not to kill her out of compassion for her child.

  9. What a great episode!

    I got such a kick out of watching Ben trick Ceaser and then shoot him. That was the best part of the episode for me!!!

    Was it just me or did anyone else think that 1988 Ben looked like someone out of Robin Hood just before he stole alex???

  10. Jed

    Locke’s character right now is a conundrum. Is he just like Christian? Why does he disappear everytime the smoke monster is around (or supposed to be – writers are probably just messing with us). I am not sure what to make of Locke right now.

    Ben shows more humanity… and yet more inhumanity. It was “cool” to see him trick Ceasar and shoot him – but it was definitely cold blooded. I really wish we would have had one little moment of Ben feeling bad about Alex, before this ep. It was so Alex/judgment heavy.

    Anna – you pulled that “box pulled out of vent” question out of nowhere. It has never even crossed my mind. Not sure if it is anything.

    Ilana – Widmore or Island native? Crate – bomb to end the island or Egyptian key to island? Yummy.

    Last note; Ben attacking Desmond and Penny – the scene was really well done (I thought Des was dead – then remembered that he mentioned him right before). Ben freezes when he sees Charlie – which I related to Alex (it was the heavy handed emotional drive for Ben this ep) – but then re-thought that Ben might think Penny is playing him… “I don’t have a relationship to my father” – “Charlie, go back in!” Ben might read that as the kid named after her father. Just an interesting moment.

    Ok, one final thought – Ben is a liar, and never has been so liarish as in this ep. As Jason mentioned, he was double talking (and crossing) everyone in this ep. It was tough to relate to any of his flashbacks because of it (did he really feel anything for what he did to Alex? Really?).

    Great ep… good ep…. Pretty great ep.

    Jed

  11. Peaches

    All of the scenes around/in/under the temple have a cartoonish feel about them. The rest of the island, especially abandoned Dharmaville is so realistic and creepy by comparison. Thought the smoke monster was almost laughable this time — Ben is getting off easy if all he has to do is be nice to Locke.

    Ben looked rather disturbed at the mention of Christian’s name.

    Think the rest of you are correct about a close connection between Locke and Smokie. Maybe it’s not Locke at all (maybe dead IS dead). That definitely was NOT Alex.

    Worst part of this episode is the overwhelming realization that there are now NO good guys. Everyone is a liar.

    And who the heck is Ilana????

    I want a moratorium on new mysterious characters.

  12. Hemispheredancer

    Loved this episode, especially Lockes attitude. He seemed almost amused when talking to Ben about being judged. When they were in Ben’s house with Sun and Locke told her “Ben’s got something to do first” and then told Ben “Better get to it” my husband and I at the same time said “chop chop.” Locke certainly doesn’t have the fear of the monster that Ben does.

    A couple things:

    I am interested to see what happened between Ben being taken to the others and the time frame when he and Ethan take Alex. Charles was there so this indicates to me it’s before the purge so what happened with the DI that Ethan was at that time already with the others?

    I am hatching a theory that rather than Charles and Ellie having a “couple” relationship that they are perhaps brother and sister. In jughead, the young Whidmore yelled at Ellie to shut up. Something in the way that he did that made me think of my own brother. I wonder could they be faternal twins – one of them the “good” twin and the other the “bad” twin?….

    More thoughts to come! Love the podcast Anna

  13. Chris

    What or Who is Locke? Is he alive or dead? He seems so confident and knows everything now. He doesn’t seem to be exactly like Christian, but he now knows so much more about the island, how did he gain this knowledge?

    Does it have to do with him being dead and gaining the knowledge because of it? I see the connection between him and smokey, but I don’t buy the idea that he is smokey, because he saw smokey several time before.

    Locke says to Sun that he is the same guy he always was, but I don’t buy it.

  14. Chris

    Also, based on the hieroglyphs do you think smokey took out the Anubis statue? It looked like some kind of confrontation happen some time in the past.

  15. Michael

    Best episode of the season! This is exactly what I would have wanted this episode to be, following how last week’s ended. Brilliant to see Alex and Rousseau again – in fact, Danielle’s reappearance made me think that an episode where she records her distress message may still not be out of the question. Really glad they got rid of Cesar, and I loved how it came so out of the blue.

    The only problem is that, once again, I’ve got absolutely no idea which direction the show is going to go from here. So annoying that we have to wait two weeks to find out!

  16. Michael

    Whoops, just found out that the break isn’t until *after* the next episode. Great! 😀

  17. Chris

    I have one last important question. Do you have to live on the island to be able to do the Dharma Dance like Donald?

  18. Gene in Sacramento

    About Justin’s comment on hieroglyphics in Ben’s house – it would seem that Egyptian symbolism had some meaning to the DI; after all, they put hieroglyphics into the countdown clock at The Swan. I don’t think that it’s ever been suggested that the Hostiles/Others had any input into building The Swan, or any other DI station, despite Radzinsky’s suspicions, and the fact that it was built deep into Otherland. (How did the truce apply to all these stations – Swan, Arrow, Pearl, etc. – outside the sonic fence anyway?)

    I guess that Sayid wasn’t picked up by the Others after all. It’s unlikely he would not have crossed paths with Ben fpr all those years if he had.

    And one more uneccessary Ben lie I haven’t seen mentioned – do we really believe that he had no idea where Locke was taking him until they were practically at the Temple? And that he didn’t know Smokey was there in the first place? Right…

    But I really don’t think Ben is lying about not remembering the 316ers in 1977. They arrived just a few days before he was shot, and there’s no evidence of any major interaction.

    This just keeps getting more awesome!

  19. Anzam

    What lies in the shadow of the statue is the nuclear bomb from episode “Jughead” and is the code of Whitmore’s new team of assasins.

  20. Colin

    I’m a little behind on listening to the podcasts, so I apologize for the lateness of my comment. While listening to the discussion of Locke and his newfound knowledge/confidence, I was reminded of Gandalf in The Lord of the Rings.

    For those unfamiliar with the story, Gandalf begins the story as “Gandalf the Grey.” He is undoubtedly a powerful and knowledgeable wizard, but one who is surpassed by his enemies, as is proven by his defeat at the hands of Saruman the White (technically Saruman of Many Colours at that point I guess). Near the end of Fellowship, Gandalf falls into a pit in Moria while fighting a Balrog and is presumed dead.

    However, early in The Two Towers, Gandalf appears to three of the adventurers, much the same but certainly different. He is now Gandalf the White and is imbued with much greater power and knowledge. Recounting what happened after his battle with the Balrog he says, “…darkness took me, and I strayed out of thought and time, and I wandered far on roads that I will not tell…I was sent back – for a brief time, until my task is done.”

    I’m sure it’s obvious what I’m getting at by now. His name is John; John the White. He’s come to us again at the turn of the tide.

    I won’t clog things up more, but there are plenty of other compelling quotes if you want to look into it further. Let me know what you think.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s